继续卡车话题-实用是最大的卖点

HRU · 发表于 2008-4-19 22:56

首先，各位在谈论卡车的时候，不要忘记是在谈论full size 皮卡还是谈 mid-size 皮卡。

误解1 卡车必须是body on frame, 也就是底盘和车体必须是分离的才是“真正的卡车”

实际上，当你把一辆丰田tacoma 拆开后，（或者是通用的colorado), 你会发现底盘和车厢的连接是如此的简单和粗糙（12个-14个12mm螺栓加上垫片）我敢保证，如果unibody 比这个结构便宜的的话，99%的中型皮卡会使用unibody 结构。在中型卡车里面，unibody structure 的成本比body on fame 要高。（unibody 要更精密的工装设备和更高级别的钢材toolings and steel grade) 本田是唯一愿意下血本生产unibody mid size pickup truck 的厂商，因为它想在这个圈子里分一杯羹，只能投入更多。事实上本田的结构强度和抗扭系数都高于其竞争对手。如果在full size 卡车里面谁能够生产出unibody 的话，成本一定高的惊人，没有商用价值，尽管结果是更舒适的驾驶和操控，更高的强度。所以，迄今没有unibody 的full size pickup truck .原因是经济上划不来。

2 差速器的误解 Locking diffrential/limited slippery diffrential
差速器实际上和转弯有关。现代汽车和轻型卡车都有差速器，保证转弯的时候内外轮的转速差不会造成wind-up 以及操控困难。但是，差速器的存解决了转弯的问题的同时又导致了车轮循迹 traction 的问题。如果一侧车轮打滑，差速器会导致两侧同时减少扭矩输出，造成未打滑一侧扭矩损失，整体后果是车辆推进力下降。

为了解决这个问题，有些车辆设计了locking differential. 这种机械结构强制扭矩平衡输出，牺牲一侧的traction 来保证在良好路面一侧的轮子能够获得足够的扭矩摆脱困境。

如果是4轮驱动车辆，差速器可以有几个（前差速器，后差速器，中桥）它们可以单独存在，也可以共同存在。

LSD 是折衷，利用有限的锁定来给两侧的车轮同时提供traction.

但是，差速器仅仅是解决问题的方法之一，并不是所有的4轮驱动系统都要有差速器介入才能解决traction 和扭矩的平衡输出的问题。奔驰的越野车ML GL 以及轿车的 4matic 驱动就没有差速器，而采用电子离合实现真正的1+1+1+1 驱动，必要的时候一个轮子可以得到发动机90%的扭矩！（此时其它三个轮子可能都失去traction, 扭矩对它们没有意义）当然成本又一次阻挠了所有车辆去掉机械差速器的使用。本田采用的是传统和电子的混合体，可以锁定，也可以实现4轮电子动态分配扭矩，比纯机械的4x4减轻了自重，但是需要换differential oil （大约24000km 更换第一次，然后96000公里更换，第三次是192000公里，本田的机油，变速箱油，差速器油均有传感器决定更换时机，每辆车的出现时间不同，工况决定）我不知道为什么gm silverado 不需要换differential oil. 但我知道gm 的变速箱油全密封，不需要更换。（奔驰也是如此）

3 payload, 扭矩，马力

这些完全是无意义的讨论，本田卡车不是为了卡车聊天生产的，它是纯粹的城市卡车。无论承认与否，ridgeline 100% 满足其设计需要。谈到越野，我可以邀请任何品牌的SUV 到位于Antony Hendy 和saskachewan river 交汇的桥下的公园（河南岸，桥下西侧）这是一系列挑战性的陡坡（超过25度），offroad, 从河堤下面开到田野里，然后向南开进农田，然后越过antony hendy 西侧的深沟回到antony hendy 高速的路肩上。谈到装载能力，没有任何一款SUV 可以装载1500磅的行李。

关于拖斗，我没有拖过任何东西。但是，我开过siverado 08 2500 HD 拖带2台雪地摩托去jasper. 油耗高的你想哭，（百公里超过22升高速120km/h) 不如租当地的摩托开呢。本田卡车不是working horse, 它代替的是suv 不能做的工作。

doge ram 是沙场老将，尤其是便宜的价格零买家难以抗拒。 24月lease 0首付，每个月320元，这可是1500 SXT crewcab. 4x4 loaded hemi MDS. 很值得购买。比日本车titan 便宜350元每个月。

但是，如果有心情和有银子，Titan 仍然是首选。你可以找到很多快乐的GM Ford Dodge driver, 同时你很容易找到同样失望愤怒的三大品牌车主。但是，titan 只有满意的车主，很少遇到失望愤怒的车主，在这一点上，同本田很相似。

scuba1995 · 发表于 2008-4-20 00:50

高!!!

MingJ · 发表于 2008-4-20 11:59

转贴一个, 给大伙提供点信息: BODY-ON-FRAME VS UNIBODY

A few things I would also add to what some have mentioned previously....

BOF "Body on Frame"... Just imagine the whole body, seats, dashboard, benches, doors/roof, all just being pulled upwards, and placed on a frame which hs the mechanicals...shocks, engine, tires, etc.

Unibody, it's a complete skeleton like most cars... currently there's only one passenger car which is "Body on Frame" that is the Ford Crown Victoria, Grand Marquis, Town Car. They are build on a frame, which is why they are popular with taxi fleets, police depts...you can throw one on a curb, and not think twice about it...you can't do that with an Impala or Magnum. So if your in a situation where you must HIT a vehicle, don't pick this, pick a Toyota or Kia.

But overall like anything else, they both have their advantages, and disadvantages. The truck is much more durable, specifically if the frame is open "C" channel, or fully boxed. A good example if the Ford F-150, it's totally boxed. Now the new Tundra, chose to go with an open "C" channel, which isn't really recommended for serious work, and as it is, it only got 4 stars in the governments crash testing days ago.

Also, the tighter and solid the frame, the quieter and much more solid the shocks work. Less shake/flex in the body, just a much more durable and quieter product...which is why the F-150 leads in quietness and handling.

Now as comparison, take a Honda Ridgeline which is car based unibody, which supposedly Honda's news release tried alot of spin saying it's not a car platform, but I've disected the vehicle, and yes...it's an Oddysey with a few more structural members. What happens is, to get the vehicle to be a bit more rugged, the Unibody construction requires much more reinforcement...in turn, causing what otherwise would be a platform of a car that weights around 3000lbs, increase a good 1500lbs more and still, it's no where near as capable. Case in point, the towing/hauling capacity is almost carlike, reports of shock failures are pretty high, etc.

Also, Body on Frame construction is cheaper to produce overall. Ford is making about $10-15K profit on each F-150, while the Ridgeline is not meeting sales expectations, requiring rebates and it's cheapest model is around $5-6K more than a regular BOF truck, not allowing Honda to post much of a profit to where they have been thinking of possibly discontinuing the vehicle in 2-3 years.

I'm going to give you a link, which compares the F-150 with many of the competitors and the video is pretty interesting, in small 2 minute video scenes, which describe the benefits of it's frame, how it compares to others...everything down to showing you what the frame is, what it looks like, the bolts used, etc. It's pretty interesting learn.

MingJ · 发表于 2008-4-20 12:04

链接如下, 任何制造商的测试肯定会突出自己的优点, 不过可以由此了解一些PICKUP的知识, 以及JAP 的PICKUP是怎么回事. http://www.fordvehicles.com/thetruthabouttrucks/

Z · 发表于 2008-4-20 15:31

原帖由 MingJ 于 2008-4-20 12:59 发表
. |" a5 r8 e5 bBut overall like anything else, they both have their advantages, and disadvantages. The truck is much more durable, specifically if the frame is open "C" channel, or fully boxed. A good example if the Ford F-150, it's totally boxed. Now the new Tundra, chose to go with an open "C" channel, which isn't really recommended for serious work, and as it is, it only got 4 stars in the governments crash testing days ago.

这段话估计是福特公司枪手写的。Tundra是2个"C" channel合成的box。这在Edmunds上讨论过很多次了。
至于安全，Tundra是最好的，这是美国保险业者的研究数据：
http://www.iihs.org/ratings/summary.aspx?class=70

半导体 · 发表于 2008-4-21 18:04

原帖由 HRU 于 2008-4-19 23:56 发表
% B6 U5 D7 O5 C" S% t首先，各位在谈论卡车的时候，不要忘记是在谈论full size 皮卡还是谈 mid-size 皮卡。7 D- t$ @0 }7 ?3 x
. E, ?" V; C# v; }
误解1 卡车必须是body on frame, 也就是底盘和车体必须是分离的才是“真正的卡车”, A2 u5 g U/ R: w

( `( d8 p7 Y$ B+ ^0 u' A/ n实际上，当你把一辆丰田tacoma 拆开后 ...

写得非常的好，但有些地方还不是很明白，还需要一些时间自己消化~~~

HRU · 发表于 2008-4-21 18:15

Thanks to MingJ for the comments on Ridgeline and F-150, though these comments are from other guy and not a fair comparion at all. (Honda Ridgeline Vs F150)

Unibody contruction is a good choice for handling and ride quality. But this is a expensive choice. Of course a unibody turck needs a lots of enforce. In fact, Honda Ridgeline is a hybrid with ladder box at the bottom to mimic the frame. This costs fortune.

A truck, especially pick up truck stands for huge profit. I agree with author's comment on 12-15k profit on a 40k truck. Honda makes about 5k profit only saddly.

I also believe this is a Ford Paid article, especially if you have a Ford DVD on comparing F150/Silerado/Ram/Tundra, many comments are identical.

But simply discussing a specific truck makes no sense to Chinese.

A truck is for work

A Honda truck is for life and light duty work.

If I have to buy a full size truck, I still wont choose any big 3. I will buy a Nissan Titan or a Tundra if it is improved its solidity and impact rate (4star now)

HRU · 发表于 2008-4-21 18:28

Ming J alway blames that Honda pretends to be a truck.

In fact, a body on frame american truck ( no matter it is a intimidating full size or mid size), usally is not as safe as a "Jap" truck.

In fullsize truck, Toyota Tundra beats all the "tough guys" with American DNA.

In mid size truck, GM/Dodge/Ford are so poor in safety wise. They only care about costs, do not bragging how though they are! They only care about the profits not your safety first. and they always give consumers a false image of who they are.

Thanks Z for the link of IHIS safety rating links.

MingJ · 发表于 2008-4-21 18:34

眼下TUNDRA不是最佳选择, 尤其V8的POWERTRAIN不可靠, 远逊色于SILVERADO / SIERRA, 而且TUNDRA的STABILITY CONTROL SYSTEM 设计不好, CANADIANDRIVER 刚作过一个PICKUP 对比测试, 蛮有意思的. http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/cc/gm_challenge.htm

MingJ · 发表于 2008-4-21 18:45

假如有一天我决定买FULL SIZE PICKUP, 我肯定首先关心可靠性, 其次是结构, 低转速扭矩, 外形, 稳定控制, 煞车距离. 安全测试几颗星想都不想, 我不觉的四星和五星会有明显区别, 对于马路上的TRUCK来说:)

一半清醒 · 发表于 2008-4-21 19:33

楼上很明白。

能不能分析一下道奇，福特和通用的卡车的鸽子有缺点。

道奇 RAM1500-3500很便宜阿，性能价格比如何呀？？？

谢谢！

HRU · 发表于 2008-4-21 19:46

If you really need a truck to do some dirty work or hard work, Dodge might be the best for commercial job.

A Dodge Ram 1500 SXT Crewcab 4x4 (with tons of equipments), 0 down, lease for only 24 month. payment 320-330/m

similar Jap truck or SUV (40K) will cost you over $700/month

This is only 24 month term which is good for commercial write off and you always drive a new car.

(hopefully Dodge will have same deal after 2 years )

waterous · 发表于 2008-4-22 19:18

为了解决这个问题，有些车辆设计了locking differential. 这种机械结构强制扭矩平衡输出，牺牲一侧的traction 来保证在良好路面一侧的轮子能够获得足够的扭矩摆脱困境。

能不能具体说说牺牲了那一侧？我有两个猜测不太成熟：
1. 牺牲打滑的一侧，也就是说打滑的一侧从只有一个轮子打滑变为两个打滑。
2. 牺牲非打滑的一侧，也就是说另一侧的两个不打滑的轮子加上这一侧打滑的轮子，那就是三个打滑。
我怎么觉得不管是那种情况，都无法保证车子能获得足够的扭力来摆脱困境？
另外，扭矩和扭力的英文翻译是什么？
谢谢

冷眼看世界 · 发表于 2008-4-22 23:28

不管是FULLSIZE还是MIDSIZE, 卡车存在的价值就在于装载能力和拖曳能力。

你见过货柜卡车是UNIBODY的么？你见过巴士是UIBODY的么？之所以BOF要把地盘和车身分开，就是能让车子出力和承重的部分比载人的部分更加强壮，这样才能承受住强大的引擎和变速箱，承载更高的载荷。如果货柜卡车和巴士都设计成unibody的还要达到现有的承载能力，那将会比BOF重上3-4倍！
所有的BOF车辆，车身和底盘都是通过规格及高的合金钢螺栓来连接的，你在五金商店能买到最高8级的螺栓（grade 8，表明材料的抗剪切强度），但连接车身和底盘的螺栓一般都要用到10级，有些甚至要12-15级，这些螺栓的强度是非专业人士难以想象的。之所以某些unibody车辆制造成本极高，是因为他们必须使用更多的设计工序，更多的材料和焊接工序来“模拟”出类似BOF的整体承载能力。 UNIBODY说穿了，就是用薄钢片压成型，然后又一层一层叠加焊接起来，最初的设计初衷是降低车辆的制造成本，并且提供一定程度的被动安全效应（变性吸能），是使用在小型和经济性车辆上的制造技术。而BOF的地盘构架，是用高强度的钢材一次高压锻造成型，生产工艺要求和制造成本极其高。不可否认用于生产UNIBODY车身HSLA材料(high strengh low alloy)有足够的抗剪切强度，而且价钱不便宜，但这种材料的特性是厚度越高就越脆，所以只能以薄板的形式存在。
要说本田是唯一一个做unibody ”pickup“, 那是因为某些人只看得见海边就以为地球是平的。通用，福特，大众都有unibody结构的pickup，为什么在街上看不见？因为那是用来忽悠那些用不起正经pick up的国家的。 ridgeline和pilot是同一部车，把一部城市型前轮驱动平台所谓SUV（其实只是大轿车）屁股砍掉一半，做出个半大不小的货箱来，这就是HONDA TRUCK！一部大轿车拿来卖个ｔｒｕｃｋ的价钱，小日本真能做黑生意，而且还有人上当。

奔驰轿车的4matic有前，中，后三个开放式差速器（不是LSD），需要配合电子防滑系统和ABS来保证把引擎扭矩传递到有抓地力的轮子上，原理就是把打滑的车轮刹住，这样扭矩就会传递到不打滑（也就是有抓地力）的轮子上，保证行车控制。但这种系统的缺陷就是开放式差速器的先天特性：把扭矩传递到阻力小的一侧，而扭矩降低，转速增加。
举例说，开放式差速器输入轴的转速是500rpm，扭矩100NM，传动比1：1，转动阻力忽略不计，在差速器两侧没有阻力的状况下，左侧和右侧的转速都会是500rpm，扭矩都是50NM。如果此时把左侧的子完全制动（转速为0)，右侧还是没有阻力,右侧的转速就将会是1000rpm，而扭矩还只是50NM(输入功率不变，输出功率也不变，功率=扭矩x转速x常量）
问题来了，如果这种系统拿去泥泞崎岖的路面去越野，如果三个轮子同时打滑，电子防滑系统介入，刹住三个打滑的车轮，第四个轮子就会有比变速箱输出还高的转速，而扭矩不会增加，这样只会导致第四个轮子更加打滑，失去仅有的一点抓地力。所以这种系统只适合对付雨雪和稍微泥泞的路面，以及在干燥路面下得到比较的控制能力。
奔驰ML，GL使用的4matic系统是用电磁的方式锁止前后中三个差速器，在只有一个轮子有抓地力的时候，锁止所有差速器，所有的轮子都得到同样的低转速和扭矩，不管哪个轮子，只要有抓地力，整个车子就能前进。为了越野，可锁止的差速器是必须的。

特殊设计机械式差速器可以根据两侧车轮或者轴的速度差来选则锁止程度，比如torsen差速器（扭矩感应式)离心锁止式。轿车全时四轮驱动的先驱AUDI quattro系统就是灵活的采用了torsen差速器，不依靠任何电子控制系统就可以自由的根据各个轮子的需要来分配扭矩，没有任何延迟，所以能击败BMW X drive系统和MB 4matic系统成为全时四轮最强。
离心锁止式差速器是在JEEP很多车型上大规模采用的，原理是在差速器两侧设计了离心锁，如果出现一边轮子转速大两高过另一侧，额外的离心力就会使差速器锁止，直到把两侧的转速差控制在一定范围内才松开。
电子系统出现故障的概率远远比纯机械系统要高的多，而且综合造价和维护成本也高的多，但这也就早就生产厂家的利润。车是工具，也是商品，试想要是一部车太完美了，又可靠，适应性又强，性能又好，那谁还能靠这个车赚钱？我们不能指望生产商不赚钱，但至有个更可靠的选择的话，为什么不选呢？

冷眼看世界 · 发表于 2008-4-22 23:37

本田的车从2000年以后开始，有机油寿命检测系统，通过引擎的运行时间，进气温度，冷却液温度，机油温度等各个传感器的参数指标来预估机油性能的寿命。但变速箱油和差速器油的寿命没有那么多因素来影响，即便有传感器也只能检测油温和油量，也没有办法来确切的检测其使用寿命，如果变速箱或者差速器有故障，新换的油一个小时以后绝对变黑，你能指望有什么传感器来检测么？只能靠经常用眼睛检查油的状况里程数来预估。所以说变速箱油和差速器油有寿命检测系统是完全扯淡，因为不可能也没必要。
另外提一句，通用的车在80年代末就有机油寿命监控系统了。而且也不知道你从哪里听来的silerado的差速油不需要换，而且任何一部变速箱都是密封的，要不然不都漏光了？有些厂家所说的免维护变速箱不代表不需要换油，而是不需要拆卸，所有的自动变速箱都需要换油。不需要换油也是专门针对某些手动变速箱，但也不代表不能换，只不过不需要换，但特殊场合下（比如赛车或者极度高温低温环境）换了会更好。

[ 本帖最后由冷眼看世界于 2008-4-23 00:45 编辑 ]

冷眼看世界 · 发表于 2008-4-23 00:15

城市卡车本身就是个很搞笑的定义，都TM城市了，还需要卡车？明明就是偷梁换柱欺骗无知群众，开个这种人不人妖不妖的人妖车，还以为自己多了不起，难道不觉得很好笑么？连个正经的四轮驱动系统都没有，跟苹果一样大的差速器，铅笔一样粗的传动轴，拖着1.5吨的车身就要喊着去越野，别给咱中国人丢人了。不过到时候你的HONDA在土坑里抛锚了，我可以免费帮你拖回家，不过是不是能完整的拖回去，我就不知道了。

两顿半的车重，8.1公升的引擎，拖两部snow mobile加拖车，还要冲到120KMH，你能指望着跟civic一样省油么？而且很多大型SUV都能装上2000-3000磅的东西。不能work的horse就不是truck，是拿来装B的人妖车。

基本没听说过有人对titan满意的，看上去还行，但内室粗糙，油耗及高，引擎非常不稳定，毛病及多，底盘扭曲严重，及难维护。5.6v8的引擎，油滤比轿车3.0轿车的都小，你能指望什么可靠性么？引擎还整天漏油，换个机油盘就要把整个前桥拆下来，9个小时的工作量。Silerado和Ram的机油盘都很少漏，而且拆下来再密封装上都可以在一小时内完成。
Silerado的后差速器直径8.5（半吨）或者9.5（0.75吨)英寸，Titan号称半吨皮卡，但后差速器只有7英寸，负载能力根本不可能和其他的半吨皮卡相比！

HRU · 发表于 2008-4-23 17:20

我很惊讶一篇简单的卡车讨论变成了冷眼 ICEHOLE的愤怒竞技场。

I hate to use the online input king so the following is in English.

I just do not understand why ICEHOLE is so mad about me who I never even personally talked to.

Yes, maybe the tech guru image gives you the previlige to abuse others? Simply copy from other's second hand experience accually doest not give you such a position.

I don't think you are mature enough to handle the issue like  show off or "zhuang B"  in your words.

First, I don't think driving a 30K truck  is show off, however, the man who drives a full size truck everyday prone to be show off  kind of person.

Second, everyone's life is different, your taste or favorite might not fit other's.  I do not know what kind of Right car of truck you are dring, why not you share your experience with you fellow Chinese?

If you drive a MB/Bimmer/Audi, good for you.
If you drive a fullsize truck, what kind of good comments on you truck?
If you drive a family car, you definately are in the mid class "car TALKING group" .
If you drive a shabby car, be patient, the life will award those who are ready.

I am not intrested in the detail technical info, I am just a normal Joe.

I like Mercedes and it gives me more than happiness during years driving.
I like Honda because I experienced its high quality and reliability myself, relatively low price ( In U.S market. I only buy car from U.S)
I don't like any domestic truck becuase my job gives me the chance to know how deep depreciation they are and lucky-draw style reliability.
I regard cars and trucks toys for man, not a serious topic.
If my serious work needs vehicles, I lease them, never buy them. Business is Business.

At the end, I agree one thing tha Audi is the best 4 wheel drive system, not from paper or other people's mouth, I drove it myself and compared it with other duo (MB 4matic/Bmer Xdrive)

But I am not buying your erogant attitudes because tech data easy to get but a pleasant manner hard to get.

冷眼看世界 · 发表于 2008-4-23 18:54

你已经深深地证明了你只不过是个一知半解就出来打肿脸充胖子忽悠群众的本田枪手，编不出个所以然来就开始放屁，至于谁是asshole，我看各位坛友心里已经有数了

[ 本帖最后由冷眼看世界于 2008-4-23 19:56 编辑 ]

HRU · 发表于 2008-4-23 20:13

I wish I am a Honda Sales, however, I sell other brand names and nothing to do with Honda products.

I just personally like Honda, that is.

Keep your abusive language, ICEHOLE.

Your name really shows who you are.

fatcat · 发表于 2008-4-23 21:41

难道LS就是俊哥哥的搭挡于先生???

冷眼看世界 · 发表于 2008-4-23 22:07

原帖由 HRU 于 2008-4-23 21:13 发表
" L( L: b  v1 M; [' q9 gI wish I am a Honda Sales, however, I sell other brand names and nothing to do with Honda products.4 D+ a) y" s3 B/ `
* f8 a& Z. V9 w' _; T  f! z% ]8 U- f
I just personally like Honda, that is.
0 t2 a" i* C7 W5 G' ^
  z; a3 N: H9 Y( Z; iKeep your abusive language, ICEHOLE.5 a' S1 z6 R3 V

) u, v4 P7 a- \7 C+ x" {Your name reall ...

your foolishless really shows your level, know shits, talk craps and been asshole, seems you really engjoy that kind of life, good luck then

[ 本帖最后由冷眼看世界于 2008-4-23 23:08 编辑 ]

HRU · 发表于 2008-4-23 22:40

I sell Lexus/Acura/Audi/BMW brand new cars ( U.S model)

I sell Toyota/Honda upon request only ( U.S model)

I don't deal with Mercedes Benz Subaru, any GM, Dodge, or Ford.(U.S model)

I do any Canadian model, no matter what nameplate, direct access to dealer internal auction ( NOT A OSMAN JUNK AUCTION!!)

I also export USED cars to China, 100% legal, legitimate, and smooth. If you have anyone wants a nice car in China, call before you buy locally. (Mercedes/Audi/BMW/Lambo/Volvo, proven track of record)

If you are going to buy any car/truck, before you buy, call me, $10,000 or more savings !!!!

Call me if your money is ready !!!!

[ 本帖最后由 HRU 于 2008-4-23 23:44 编辑 ]

Z · 发表于 2008-4-24 10:55

原帖由 冷眼看世界 于 2008-4-23 00:28 发表 ) [: Z$ x1 i) N6 i2 `
不管是FULLSIZE还是MIDSIZE, 卡车存在的价值就在于装载能力和拖曳能力。 ! D/ S* X! j/ F8 a; C6 h" |
你见过货柜卡车是UNIBODY的么？你见过巴士是UIBODY的么？0 A% v0 k" X/ R" K

1）严重不敢同意。卡车存在的价值，不是设计者赋予的，而是使用者赋予的。在北美，众多卡车的owner，使用卡车时，第一重要的功能就是运载人。运货（包括装载和拖曳）只是第二位的。既然消费者的需求是这样的，有的卡车充分满足第一个要求，刚刚满足第二个要求；有的充分满足第二个要求，刚刚满足第一个要求。这是市场细分。

2）你见过一般人开货柜卡车上班的吗（卡车司机除外，那是生意）？你见过一般人开巴士上班的吗？没有。所以，卡车咋样，巴士咋样，对于皮卡没有借鉴意义。

[ 本帖最后由 Z 于 2008-4-24 11:56 编辑 ]

冷眼看世界 · 发表于 2008-4-24 16:34

原帖由 Z 于 2008-4-24 11:55 发表
4 y: z( V+ C8 }5 }/ n- S5 S1 _! O- Z# E3 A% R9 x" u1 U

/ O% I/ K' G$ c: }8 x* ~1）严重不敢同意。卡车存在的价值，不是设计者赋予的，而是使用者赋予的。在北美，众多卡车的owner，使用卡车时，第一重要的功能就是运载人。运货（包括装载和拖曳）只是第二位的。既然消费者的需求是这样的，有 ...

人是肯定要载，问题是你能载多少货，又能拖拽多少东西。不需要经常载多少东西的时候留个空出来的货箱做什么，这叫实用还是浪费？还不如老老实实卖部轿车或者SUV。

SEMI truck是用来拉货的，BUS用来拉人，其主要目的就是为了都是负重。ＰＩＣＫＵＰ是用来干嘛的？　如果不能够负重和装载ｏｖｅｒｓｉｓｅ的货物，ｐｉｃｋｕｐ还有存在意义么

冷眼看世界 · 发表于 2008-4-24 16:42

原帖由 HRU 于 2008-4-23 23:40 发表
& P8 D2 c9 }0 A1 A- K) M' d5 F/ q4 WI sell Lexus/Acura/Audi/BMW brand new cars ( U.S model)
9 W4 f, A8 {& _- O+ U4 f+ B4 D2 s, h! q% q
I sell Toyota/Honda upon request only ( U.S model)
2 k3 ?8 X/ O. O$ T
$ ^; R- U q2 S% X2 kI don't deal with Mercedes Benz Subaru, any GM, Dodge, or Ford.(U.S model)' R$ A9 B! w2 @- j. e

2 a o) M. P, G2 j; k# b: U9 o) K, aI do an ...

改日求教

MingJ · 发表于 2008-4-24 17:34

RIDGELINE 相比之下更适合亚洲市场, 国内以前叫工具车, 每个公司都有几辆, 主要载人, 可以运点小设备, 仪器什么的. 下工地特好用,

HRU · 发表于 2008-4-24 18:23

The reason for a NO REAL pickup:

A: 4 adults plus: 3 set of skis and gears, 1 set of snowboard and gear plus luggages for 3 nights hotel stay for them
B: 70 pcs 8x4 dry wall boards and 10 pails of mud from Kenrock construction material
C: 20 bundles of insulations in one trip
D: around 1000 punds dirt for new lawn.
E: garbage bags that I forget move to pick-up spot and have to move myself.
F: Funitures and Mattresses.
.....

A mid size SUV or full size SUV (Yukon) has difficulties to do these jobs in one shoot. This is the reason some people won't choose a car or SUV as the 2nd car.

Becuase it is not real truck, this is also good for daily driving with reasonable gas milage. (14L/100km city 10-14L/highway)

It is also nice fitting and finished, with very impressive sound system. (6 speaker + subwofer) Of course no comparison to MB harman kardon (13+1 speakers), but it is the best in its class.

So, it is a good compromise city toy.

[ 本帖最后由 HRU 于 2008-4-24 19:27 编辑 ]

HRU · 发表于 2008-4-24 18:34

When Chinese fellows are well developed, they will have needs for this kind of pick up truck.

Now China is a car and SUV market absolutely.

I only sold one Silverado 1500 2007 LTZ to China. That is for a guy from Heilongjiang for Ski resort hauling SKIDOOs.

I drove that truck around 1200km to Vancover, I admit that it was a nice ride. Titan and Tundra have similar joyful ride, I wish in the future I can drive a truck like that without thinking gas milage.

Tundra's only concern is the safty rate. I was convinced by Ford attcking Advertisement that Tundra is weak truck , though Ford is not a high quality city ride truck.

Tundra has over 10k pound towing capacity, which might be attractive to those having serous hauling work to do, like snow removal guy ( they can tow 3 bobcats and more gears in one trip)

冷眼看世界 · 发表于 2008-4-24 20:10

原帖由 MingJ 于 2008-4-24 18:34 发表
' X2 L1 X& p" M, LRIDGELINE 相比之下更适合亚洲市场, 国内以前叫工具车, 每个公司都有几辆, 主要载人, 可以运点小设备, 仪器什么的. 下工地特好用,

RIDGELINE敢下工地？

冷眼看世界 · 发表于 2008-4-24 20:14

原帖由 HRU 于 2008-4-24 19:34 发表 / {# L$ Q: R4 M- t) ]) l2 D7 R
When Chinese fellows are well developed, they will have needs for this kind of pick up truck.
2 z1 i# n# M/ E* h3 m6 D8 i) ^) K8 g( Z$ Y, c2 R5 C
Now China is a car and SUV market absolutely.
, l* C* g; @" z9 D1 F" F+ _
- N+ f1 G) }$ K" |( p+ Y9 M/ GI only sold one Silverado 1500 2007 LTZ to China. Tha ...

I dont really think you can impot a pick up truck to china, so far as i remembered, unless all the regulations are changed

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继续卡车话题-实用是最大的卖点

very good disccusion about BOF

About Safety ralated Pickup Truck

Dodge is so cheap now (Which is suppose to be)

三角猫又来糊弄群众了

愤怒的翅膀不能飞翔－送给冷眼

Honda sales?

I sell Lexus/Acura/Audi/BMW from U.S market

What a mid size pickup bed can carry

agree with MingJ